Fresh: Hello, everyone. And welcome to The Advisor Roots Podcast. 

Ben: We’re so excited to share our first ever podcast episode with you. 

Fresh: Mhmm. 

Ben: In this episode, we spoke with Kari Gillenwater, a strategic business consultant and coach. 

Fresh: We covered Kari’s background as well as her advice about branding, corporate identity, and why it’s so important.

Ben: Yeah. 

Fresh: It was such a fun and insightful conversation, and we hope you enjoy it as much as we did. 

Ben: I think one of the main pieces I walked away with Fresh: how Kari brings us back to the basics… 

Fresh: Mhmm. 

Ben: … and talks about marketing from a non-traditional way of, like, everyone goes to the fun funnels… 

Fresh: Mhmm. 

Ben: … and, and marketing campaigns. And Kari really makes our clients think about their story and the basics…

Fresh: Mhmm.

Ben: … and who they’re reaching. And so I’m excited for this episode. 

Fresh: Me too.

Fresh: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Advisor Roots’ first guest podcast. I am so excited that Ben and I are featuring Kari Gillenwater as our very first guest. Kari, tell us a little bit about your background, uh, what you do, where, where you’re from, and where you’re at today. 

Kari: Wow. Okay. So I’m the first guest. No pressure. Okay, awesome. All right. Well, um, I guess you could call me a spark plug of sorts. I am kind of a strategic business consultant where businesses plug me in to do a lot of things. Um, I work with a lot of financial, um, and insurance advisors, and I help everything from helping them understand their ideal client… And I specialize in study groups, and that’s how I started in the industry. I had a wonderful man. His name was Frank McGee, and he had his own boutique life insurance firm here in Little Rock. And he hired me, and he had started a study group, and he wanted me to run it. And it was 30 amazing, uh, elite producers, and they did three meetings a year and one… every year in, they would do a meeting in Vegas where they would bring their COIs and… their centers of influence. And so I did that first meeting when I first came to, to work with Frank, and then unfortunately, he passed away suddenly. 

Fresh: Oh. 

Kari: We lost him. And that was very traumatic. And um, however, the group, um, decided to hire me, uh, to run the group; they didn’t want Frank’s legacy to stop. So they thought, “This is such a cool group. We wanted to keep on going.” So they, they hired me ad infinitum, and my business began. 

Fresh: Wow. 

Kari: We had a tragic loss of Frank, but as everything in life, there are always silver linings, and I feel like Frank is my angel from up above who’s really helped me build my business. And so from that, I just have become… everything I do leads or facilitates growth for elite advisors, and I’ve done everything from marketing and branding to strategic business building. So that’s really how I made my foray into the insurance financial world: I started working for the study group, and then I realized, “Wow, all of these guys need marketing, but they don’t wanna hire someone full time.” And so I thought, you know, “I could do that.” And so I kind of started my own little ad hoc, you know, marketing resource… I don’t know what I was. And that’s where my business has been built. So I kind of became the study group guru. And so now I have over 30 study groups in the industry with high-, with, with advisors that work usually in the high-net-worth, ultra-high-net-worth space. I do that a lot for, um, I, my, my largest client is Lion Street, but I also do some other ones. And so I also work with MDRT and Forum and Finseca, some of the industry, um, and, and support them and ambassadors for them. So that’s kinda how I got into it, and then now after, I guess, 15 years, I work a lot with strategic building of firms. And so kind of help them to understand, you know, what is their ideal client, what problems do you solve? And then how can we help you market to those people? And about a year ago, um, I started doing Kolbe. Which has been a really neat add on to my business and been something that I had no idea that was gonna take off so much. Um, so many firms are looking to grow, but they don’t know how, and they really don’t understand how to hire. And you know, the cost of a bad hire is huge. It’s 30% of whoever you’re hiring, like whatever their salary is. If you, you mess up, it can be expensive. 

Fresh: Yeah. That’s great. So, um, I know that you mentioned that you do mark-… you do, your focus is really market, foundations study groups, and then also the, the Kolbe coaching for today. I think we’re gonna talk a little bit about branding and, and why that’s such a pivotal part, branding, sorry, branding and corporate identity, and why that’s such a pivotal part. Why is this so important as you work with advisors to kind of identify who the right-fit clients are and why they need to have a brand. 

Kari: Well, this, as you guys know in the financial and insurance space, it is so glutted, right? And it’s with, you know, there’s all kinds of firms doing all kinds of different things. And everybody says they do everything. They will take care of you. But my viewpoint on that is if you’re everything to everybody, you’re really nothing to anybody, right? And so for me, I really wanna focus in and help our… help the businesses that I work with define their voice. And what that means is: who are they and who, what, who is their ideal client, and what are the problems that they solve? A lot of times when I start working with a firm, they always tell me what they sell. And I’m like, I’d like to reframe that. I’d really like, we all sell the same things. I mean, there’s, you know, IUL, VUL, there’s assets under management, there’s all kinds of things that we sell that doesn’t make us special, but what problems we solve and how we solve them and the access to experts that we have. That’s what differentiates us. And so that’s really where I go deep on that. And then another thing that I do for clients is take a look at, at their book of business. And it’s so important to segment your clients and know your book of business. One of the things that I always coach about is know your numbers and that doesn’t just mean how much money you make, okay? That means that know your numbers. How many clients do you have and where does 80% of your business come from? So I’ll give you an example. I had a client that has about 2000 clients, but if we looked at them, I think like 150 of them represented 80% of their business. Wow. That’s good information to know. I wanna focus on those 150 and maybe offload the rest of them to somebody else that can handle those B and C clients that are not ideal-fit because I’m spending a lot of money, energy, time, resources, staff on all those people that don’t even bring me 80% of my business. And so for me, that’s usually an epiphany. They’re like, “Holy crap.” When I fi… we finally figure that out, they’re, like, “Had no idea.” And so then we’re like, “Wow. Okay, so how do we really love on that 150, that 80% of where business comes from?” And you know what I have another client, it’s only 36 clients that represent 80% of their business. And so then I also say, “Okay, let’s look at your COIs, your centers of influence, where do 80% of your business come from?” Of those COIs. Those are the COIs that we want to love on and, and, and cultivate, and understanding that is huge for a business owner, because focus. Where you focus your time and energy, those are the two things you can’t buy more of, right? 

Ben: It’s so true, Kari.

Kari: Capacity, capacity is such a huge issue. And so understanding your clientele and segmenting your clients, understanding who A’s are, what does an A do, and then, what does an A get? If you have an A client, do you touch ’em every month? If so, how? How do you stay in front of them? How do you become, how do you kind of ascend that next level of going from client-vendor to client and trusted advisor? 

Ben: I love that, Kari, though, because so much of what we do then on the marketing side is, you know, they think about… they come to us in that same framework that you just took them through, of: how do I meet all of these people or how do I do mass marketing? And we are always doing the same thing that you’re doing of… you’re looking at like their current business. And we do the same thing of: how can we use your website and marketing activities to help with that 80% instead of worrying about everyone? Because what might be working for someone else is not going to necessarily work for the people that you are attracting or getting your main business from. So it’s like important in all stages of your current clients, how you’re prospecting and doing marketing, and then even on the systems, on the backend of how you’re tracking all of that or what the onboarding experience is like, it’s all so interconnected.

Kari: It’s so huge. And I think you go, the CRM part is really important, and you know, I love it when people go, “I need to do marketing.” Like, that is so broad. And so, and, but most people think marketing means I’m gonna go find new clients…

Ben: Mhmm.

Kari: But see, I, again, reframe that. The cheapest and easiest customers for you to do business with are the ones you already have. And a lot of times people are missing that cuz they have no strategic or intentional plan for harvesting and supporting and doing more business with their current… It’s like, “Okay, done. Yeah, we’re done now. Next… for the new one.” Hello? You have people that…

Ben: Yeah.

Kari: … still need way more. And the more, the deeper you go, and they’re also wonderful referrals…

Ben: Mhmm.

Kari: … because who’s the best person to, you know, tout you and say what a wonderful, you know, resource you are is your current clients. And so I think people are… sometimes miss the mark. They’re always looking for new, new, new, new, new, when they haven’t even finished servicing… or, you know, haven’t done everything they could do for their current book of business. And I think as marketing professionals, that’s our job to say, “Whoa, whoa, do we really need to do a whole new campaign when we don’t even service the ones we have yet to the best of our ability?” 

Ben: Right.

Kari: And so this is something that… I just think that they fall into that trap. They see something lead generation on LinkedIn and go, “Ooh, we need to do that.” Or they see someone’s website, that’s doing something, and they go, “Ooh, let’s do that.” And they’re always looking for that shiny new object and…

Ben: Mhmm.

Kari: … or that new… “I’ve got a silver bullet. This is gonna work. This is gonna be what catapults me,” but really they have everything they need already…

Ben: Yeah.

Kari: … in their current book of business to at least establish a good foundation and then build on that. And then that’s where your referrals come from. And I always talk, talk about it like a spoke exercise. You know, you have one in the middle and then it… another one comes off that, another one comes off that, and then this one refers you to that one, and it gets just gets bigger and bigger. So I always try to caution, you know, my clients to say, it’s, you know, “A new client’s always not the best. Like, let’s make sure we’re doing as much as we can for our current clients and helping them and love them because that’s so much easier than going out and finding a brand new, organic client. Not that we don’t wanna do that…”

Ben: Right.

Kari: “… but let’s first make sure that we’re doing the most cost-effective marketing, which is internally, with our current client base.”

Ben: I love that. I, I think you like spoke exactly to the amount of effort too, right? Because it’s not only, like… what is your cost to acquire a new client? It’s much higher than it is to sell an existing client on another service or another engagement. And so like, there’s the, the investment or money component to it, but there’s also the amount of time and energy it takes, right? And so it’s like, you see these shiny objects of, like, “I want that cool marketing sequence that someone else has.” There were likely hours and hours of work that went into that…

Kari: And dollars and dollars and dollars. 

Ben: Yeah. 

Kari: And staff, people, and follow-up in maintenance. And I think, you know, then you’ve got… so say I’ve got a small firm, it’s a producer and an assistant. They have a limited amount of, you know, capital that they wanna invest in that business. They need to have the biggest bang for their buck. And so for me, you know, a lot of… At first, a huge website with all these bell and whistles, isn’t what they need. They just need a credible, almost landing-page website to bring people and draw people in. Then once they get the bigger clientele, get, get more established, then they can take that marketing and grow with it. But if they don’t… but a lot of ’em start with like a site that’s just a template, so it can’t grow with them. So then they’re having to re-, you know, completely invest in something new five years later. And so really nderstanding the whole marketing process and going, you know… One of the things we always talk about is if, if you’re not good at it, go find someone who’s an expert and use them. And so that’s why I always recommend, for my financial and, and insurance clients to say, you know what, if you have to draw up a trust, you go to an estate planning attorney. Don’t try to do your own market… Like go to the professionals. They know how to do a website. They know what you need, and they’ll build the website for not just today, but three years, five years, ten years down the road, which is what you guys are so good at, is walking people through that process. And sometimes, you know, you don’t know what you don’t know if it’s not what you do every day. And so as marketing professionals, that’s kind of, what we’re… we do is to say, “I know you see this one little part, but behind the curtain, there’s so much more.” Knowledge, to me, is power. Um, and so as we work with our clients, we also educate them, right? And I think that’s something so key that you guys are doing with your community.

Fresh: Thank you. 

Ben: Thank you. 

Fresh: We’ve actually just gone through a lot of the, the painstaking process of rebuilding a website and tightening up our brand and creating a brand guide and expanding on some of the, the look and the feel of all of it. And I, I understand you’re going through some of that same process too.

Kari: I am, I am. So I’m really excited. Um, one of our organizations, uh, MDRT has asked me to speak in the fall. And so, um, and I’ll be talking about the work I do around Kolbe and building your… a world class team. And so with that, it’s about time I look at my website and, uh, revamp it a bit. It’s been since pre-COVID. And so yesterday I had the, the fun adventure of getting head shots and some photography, which was kind of a riot, ‘cause I’m not a supermodel. And, um…

Fresh: Whatever, 

Kari: … as a 50… as a 54 year old woman, it’s like, “Ugh, that’s a little daunting,” but it was really fun. And it really, you know, it made me think about my brand and what do I wanna say? And, you know, one of the things we always say is, like, “What are your core values?” And for me, it’s, you know, I wanna be authentic, and I wanna be creative, and I’m really… I’m kind of, you know, I am what I am, and I’m pretty bold about… I’ll tell you exactly what I think. And so I wanted my pictures to kind of reflect that, um, and not just be that stiff, like headshot. So a lot of my shots were a little more fun and, and, uh, hopefully you’ll be seeing them on social media, but I also thought it was time. I kind of upped my game a bit and not just taking a selfie here and there. So it was really fun, and it really did make me think about my brand, and, you know, I think one of the fun things is that your brand is always evolving.

Fresh: Mhmm.

Kari: You know, like I, you know, a year ago, I, I, you know, didn’t even do Kolbe now. It’s a huge part of what I do in every, in every day. And it’s actually been a really great, I guess, ancillary pipeline for my business. And it’s really in allowed me to open up who I serve even more, which is exciting. Um, and I love that.

Ben: I love that you talk about core values too, ‘cause I think that that gets lost sometimes when you’re thinking about marketing and I, I tie ’em together, of, like you said, your marketing’s never done, or your branding is always evolving. We say the same things about websites of like, “Just ‘cause you launch a website doesn’t mean that’s the end, you’ve made it to the finish line.” Like there’s actually a lot more work after that, right, to make it more effective. But keeping those core values and in, at the top of your list, in what you’re doing, I think kind of trickles down into like your team culture, your… 

Kari: Absolutely.

Ben: … the way that you work with clients and everything.

Kari: I’m working with a client. Now, they have such a fun young team. And so as we’ve been doing their branding, we know, we wanted to incorporate that in there. And they’re, they’re one of their biggest off… uh, core values, curiosity, and remaining curious, and always being relentless, you know, not satisfied with the status quo. And I love that. And so we’ve been able to reflect that in kind of the feel of their website. And for me, I guess… For mine, it’s always lean into your strengths. I’m very positive and all about opportunity and what the universe can manifest for you. And really speaking, you know, speaking what you want and then creating it. And so I believe that everything in my brand talks to that, and I want it to be empowering for all my clients. And so that’s been a really fun. You… for me, when you do a website or anything, it’s a breathing entity. It, it, it, you have to feed it. 

Ben: Mhmm.

Kari: You have to love it, and you have to let it grow. And sometimes it grows in a way that you had no idea. And it’s just kind of like, if you’re open to that and ready and working with professionals that can help you do that. Like you, both of you do that for me, you know, it really makes it so much easier. ‘Cause I don’t have to do the things and try to figure out how to do stuff. I mean, lord, half the stuff you guys do. I had no idea we could do it. And so… Ben is so good at the automation part. Like I had no idea that you could automate a lot of that. And what does automation do: that frees up capacity for you to go do your unique ability stuff. So things out there that make you money, that… where you live in your bliss, you know, like my best days I’m doing work that I would do, even if you didn’t pay me. Don’t tell anybody that, but, um, and that’s like the fun part, you know, to me, it’s like, do what you love and then call it work. I mean, so I think really underst–… I think one of the best things that we do for people is we really help them understand what their bliss is. What is their unique and ideal client, and what is… help them find their voice to say, here’s what we do, here’s why we’re different, and here’s who we want to work with to solve their problems. And if we can do that, we have focused in and really helped them to streamline their entire sales process. 

Fresh: That’s kind of actually, why we, we started Advisor Roots was to help people who were in a position of providing trusted advice to tell the roots of their story. And that, you know, we started off at working with financial advisors, insurance producers that expanded onto attorneys, CPAs, and other professionals that you’d go to when you, you needed some life advice on, on what to do. And it’s actually continued to expand, but a lot of what this boils down to is what are the roots of the story, of your story. Most of the people who I see that all of us work with are on the independent side of things. They don’t work for necessarily a large corporation. And so it’s even more important to distill down: Why do you do what you do? What is your story? Who, who do you best serve? And then how do you serve them? And kind of, you know, just whittling it all down to where it all started. Why do you do what you do? Because at the end of the day, everybody wants to make money. They wanna stay in business, but we…

Kari: Yeah, none of us are, you know, we’re not 501c3, right? I mean…

Fresh: Yeah.

Kari: … we we’re in it to… We wanna help our clients, but we also need to make a profit and have, you know, and support our lifestyles and, and be able to grow, right? And you know, one of the things that I always, I guess my core, my three Cs are connecting, collaborating, and cultivating relationships. And I think marketing pretty much is the, is the, at the root of all of that, right? And our brand and everything. And so I was looking through some of the questions that you guys asked me on the, the form to, to prepare for the podcast. And it said one of the, one of the things that you learned early on. And I have to say, I worked with an amazing advisor. His name is Jim Hebets out of Phoenix, and I had the privilege of working with his firm for several years. And I’ve never met… not only is he an amazing technician, but I’ve never met a better connector. And he showed me the… if you can help people connect with the people that they need to connect with to help them grow their business, you will be amazed at how they will help… then turn around and help you. 

Fresh: Mhmm.

Kari: And that’s pretty much how I’ve built my whole business. A lot of people say, I don’t know, but Kari might know somebody that does. And so it doesn’t make me the expert, but it makes me a connector. 

Fresh: Yep.

Kari: And I think one of the things that I always tell my clients: “if you can become that connector, you have a, a seat at the table.” 

Fresh: Oh yeah.

Kari: You are their trusted circle and…

Fresh: And you’re, I think you’re one of mine. You helped me do that. You, you connected me. I’ve known Kari since 2009. We’ve been in each other’s lives through work. And throughout the years, I… you connected me to the right people, including coaches and clients that allowed us to build what we have today. So you’re one of my trusted advisors. 

Kari: So, well, and it’s like, when I find good people, then I want everyone to know about them. I do the same thing for Ben. I’m like, “Oh my god, you gotta talk to Ben.” And you know, but I think that’s really what we do. But then turn around. Then you guys have brought me clients again, take a look at your current client mix. Who of your clients would benefit knowing other of your clients, where are some of those synergies where you can connect your clients, look outside of what you sell, and look at what, what is, what do they need? 

Ben: I love that. I think, you know, you and, you and Kari connected, Fresh, and then how we connected. 

Fresh: Mhmm.

Ben: It was all out of… we were looking for something, right. And we were connected by people that we trusted and that gave us a good connection out of… not trying to sell anybody anything, it was just, like, connecting good people together and then being able to provide education around that. That’s literally why we started The Community. So it’s fun to see and kind of reminisce about these stories of how we all got connected. 

Kari: Yeah. 

Ben: Because that’s now trickling down into the whole point of our community is to be able to be a resource and an education center for our clients or for people that are trying to build their business, but also connect people, right? Of, you never know who you’re gonna meet inside of The Community. 

Kari: You don’t. You don’t ever know who your next client’s gonna be. 

Ben: Yeah.

Kari: It could be the guy sitting next to you on the plane. It could be the dude that handed you the sugar at the Starbucks, whatever you never know. 

Ben: Or like you said, it may not even be a client. It may just be you… life happens, right? And you need something, and someone’s there for you. And that does really impact people in a really significant way. 

Fresh: I think it also kind of pulls back this idea of gratitude and paying it forward and making sure that you’re being present with the people who you’re meeting with, uh, regardless of what you’re trying to make the outcome be. And paying attention to what are their needs, where… what’s coming out of their mouth and how can, how can you make an impact and who can you connect them to that can help solve what they’re looking to accomplish. 

Kari: So, and I think that’s the fun part for me is when I see the dots connect and the sparks fly, and I see, “Oh, I changed their business.” Like…

Fresh: Mhmm. 

Kari: “That made a difference.” Like, “Look now they’re doing really well, or now they’ve got a whole ‘nother, you know, pipeline of business or that was a great fit for them, or they’re just happy and they got their need met.” I mean, to me, that’s like, that’s my… that’s bigger than a paycheck for me. I love that. And that, just that, I mean, and that’s kind of what fuels what I do. And, you know, that brings up a good point: coaching. I take 10% of the money that I make every single year. And I put that back into me through coaching, whether it’s through a class, whether it’s through working with an actual coach. Right now, I have six different coaches that I work with on a consistent basis.

Fresh: Wow. 

Kari: Because they make me better. I learned from them, which then makes me a better coach. And so, and as a coach, it’s like, you know, I gotta walk the walk and talk the talk, right? Like I have to actually believe in coaching. There is no better ROI than investing in yourself. And so, you know, if you don’t have a coach, get one. And if you… 

Fresh: The right one.

Kari: The right one.

Fresh: Not just any.

Kari: Ask around, get referred, um, and make sure that they under… you know, interview them. You know, it’s not just, you know, it has to be a right fit for both people. And then also one of the things that I do, and I see work every deal day are study groups. If you can’t, if you don’t have a study group, build one, you can start with two people. And then you do, and then each one, each one reach one, and then you have four, and then you invite other people. And then by the time, you know, five to ten is a really great study group, and you don’t have to meet every, every week, but you share best practices and you, and collectively you come together. ‘Cause we all know I can’t be an expert in everything, and I have different personalities, so you may talk to a client in a completely different way than I, but that one sentence that you say might be a door-opener for me, you individually all rise, but collectively as a group, it’s like one plus one equals ten. Right? And so I always… you see on my post on LinkedIn, I always say together we are better. And I really mean that. To me, I always wanna have that tribe or, or that group that I can always go to to say, “Okay, am I missing anything? How can I make this better?” You know, “What do I not know?” And I think that’s so important. Don’t be shy about doing that. 

Ben: I keep thinking about how we approach marketing so differently than traditional agencies of, I think sometimes people think marketing is so scammy, right? Like, you’re just trying to pull in the dollars. You’re trying to trick the consumer into buying something. 

Kari: Yeah. 

Ben: And your whole approach to it is gratitude and trying to do the right thing for the client or trying to do the right thing for the referral or sharing information, ‘cause you’re right: there’s enough business for everybody. There’s, there’s plenty of work for everyone, to go around. And so how do we make each, each person better and, and share that experience in that education. 

Kari: So, and you know, I’ve built my whole business on abundance, not fear. You know, what, if another client, if somebody comes along and takes one of my clients, they weren’t mine anyways.

Ben: Mhmm.

Kari: I mean, you know what, that just frees up my time to go really focus on somebody that will need me and is coachable. And, you know, so for me, I feel like I have to approach everything with that mindset of a growth mindset, that, you know, there’s there’s opportunity. And sometimes, sometimes maybe a door does shut, but it opens a window, right? And I think that everything happens for a reason. And as long as I’m showing up with the right motive with… And again, pretty much everything I do, it’s all about how can I grow it? How can I maximize it? What can we do to make it better and more fun, right? And so to me, that’s marketing. 

Fresh: Yeah, I think that’s one way too, that when we all work together, we, we categorize marketing, not as the mass approach. We’re not figuring out: how do we get in front of 10,000 people? Because I think one thing that people don’t understand is there’s still a filtering process. So are you filtering on the front end, intentionally, and defining who you actually wanna work with and seeing, and, and chasing those people, which may be 10 out of those 10,000, or are you sending out 10,000 postcards a month and then receiving a ton of phone calls and, and, and burdening your staff with answering questions that you really should have thought through before you send out those postcards?

Kari: Right. And I think “Ugh, they know there’s so many programs out there” and everyone thinks that’s, you know, “My activity is low right now, so I probably need to do something.” So then they go on LinkedIn and they’re like, “There it is! That’s what I’ll do!” And, you know, they just throw some money at it and, and it’s like, ah, and if there’s no strategy to it, they try it for three months, which nothing by the way works at for just three months. And, and they go, “Huh, that didn’t work.” And then when you try to ask about, about other things, “Nope. Did that. Didn’t work.” Really? How long did you try that? “I did it once.”

Fresh: Mhmm. 

Ben: I love just, like, going back to the basics, right? That’s the whole theme of the month is marketing foundations. And there’s so much you can dive into around like branding and the visual and the website, but really, like you said, it comes back to your core values, your story, why you’re doing this. And so I love just hearing that from you and how you incorporate that into coaching and guiding clients through that process, ‘cause it really is… Jumping to a website without knowing your core values is a recipe for disaster. So as a person that builds websites, I appreciate the work that you do. 

Fresh: Yes, I agree.

Ben: And I think it’s so valuable for clients and for anyone building a business to, you know, consider those things. It’s, it’s easy to get swept up into the marketing trends and what everyone tells you you need to be doing. Much harder to think about core values and, and what you actually want to be doing. So…

Fresh: Yeah.

Ben: … I just appreciate that insight today. Thank you, Kari. 

Fresh: Thank you. 

Ben: It’s been a journey, and we’re so thankful that you’ve been a part of our journey, and we’re thankful that you’ve joined us today on our first, our first live session and our podcast. Um, we knew… 

Kari: Well, it’s been an honor to be your first guest. I hope you’ll have me back if I… 

Ben: We definitely will. We definitely will. Well, thank you. And thank you all for listening. 

Fresh: Mhmm. 

Ben: Join us next month as we explore the topic of systems and processes along with another one of our experts.

Fresh: And make sure to subscribe to The Advisor Roots Podcast on your favorite streaming platform so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes.